[leafgreen386]

Your links prove nothing, sm. Their purpose is merely to waste our time. No one wants to read an eight page thread... especially an old one.

I'm gonna have to go on a bit of a peripheral topic here about ssbm... I'm sorry, but it has to be done.

and the whole tournament scene is wrong

That right there proves your ignorance to any type of competitive play, whatsoever. If the tournament allows it, is it really still cheating? The point of competitive play is to make the most varied, balanced playing field possible, while incorporating as much skill, and eliminating as much luck as possible. If the tournament allows it, by their modified rules, it isn't cheating for that tournament. If the game allows it w/o outside interference, and as long as it is balanced, no matter how wacky it may seem, it deserves no place to be banned in tourney.

Wavedashing and L-cancelling were both PUT INTO THE GAME INTENTIONALLY. L-cancelling has been around since the original ssb... if nintendo wanted it out, they would've taken it out in the conversion to ssbm, but they didn't remove it. Wavelanding can be turned on and off in the debug menu, so they knew they were putting it in. These facts disprove ANYTHING you can say that would make them "cheating."

Now, we're aruging about whether snaking has a place on wifi vs random people, where there are no rules, and people can hack and get away with it, which is a very different story. However I had to mention that.

And if we're talking about ignorant fools, I'm the only one in this argument that's not one...

This makes you look even more ignorant. You won't even recognize another person's argument, yet you say that everyone else is wrong, just because you have your own twisted set of "morals."

I know I've done all these points a hundred times.

How do you "know" that if you haven't read it? I assure you that those are new points (from me, anyway), as I haven't posted it before. This particular post may have old points regarding ssbm, but Idc.

Why not just say that it's cheap, not cheating.
If you say no, then consider Alt-ing constantly on MPH.
People don't consider that cheating, they say it's cheap.

Ah... the topic of "cheapness..." If we were to get into this now this topic would easy go another five pages just about that. I firmly stand by the opinion that nothing in any game is cheap. If it's unfair, it gets banned. "Cheap" is just a word used as a john for a person's own inability to counter something, that is in fact, counterable. In smash, anything is counterable. To avoid a chain throw, use mindgames and tech skill to not get grabbed (granted, easier said than done, but still, you'll notice pros rarely get grabbed by non-pros, and even other pros, meaning if you're good enough it's very much possible to "not get grabbed"), and... if you do get grabbed, DI the throws to try to fake out your opponent into going the wrong way, then tech and make your way to safety. To get out of pretty much any combo, use good DI and tech when you hit the ground. If you want to get a hit in, but don't want to get hit in return, use good spacing (aka tech skill), and fake your opponent into messing up and lagging (aka mindgames). In smash, everything is counterable by tech skill and mindgames. Whoever wins truly is the better player.

Countering snaking is rediculously easy, since all you need is tech skill. There is no mindgame factor, except when you get into item wars and stuff, but we're not talking about that, now are we? Use more SSMTs and take better lines than your opponent. That's all there is to it. Even if you're not as good as your opponent, you can still beat them thanks to items. In this way snaking is in no way broken, especially when a worse player is able to beat a more skilled one. If you refer back to my argument a few posts back I basically say that everyone snakes to varying degrees, regardless of whether they realize it or not. Does that make sense out of context? Probably not. That's why you should read it.

I'm seriously starting to get the vibe your just pissed at people who beat you with techniques you don't have the skillz to master...

You're just now figuring that out?