Snaking and Piracy

[ShadowMarth]

That's low nmaster. The only reason I'm ignoring his 'argument' is because I know I've done all these points a hundred times. I ignore his only because he ignores mine. Look, I've given countless excellent, factual arguments. My argument is not the one that degenerates into 'because I said so.'

And yes, I'm stubborn, we've been over this, but you are an ignorant cheater, defending your 'right' to do so. If the so-called "NMaster" doesn't play by the rules, does he really deserve the title? Of course, it's not like you earned it to begin with, you just proclaimed yourself as such.

Personal attacks can go both ways just as easily. I will refer you to my past arguments, because they all beat every point you have time and time again. Heck, someone could just go and quote from my arguments and have no trouble proving you wrong, not just saying it.

http://www.touchds.com/forums/debate...hlight=snaking
http://www.touchds.com/forums/ds-wi-...hlight=snaking

And this one is about Wavedashing, but much of the same topics about exploits occur. Though in the case of snaking, the facts are much more apparent...
http://www.touchds.com/forums/debate...ht=wavedashing

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

And yes, I'm stubborn, we've been over this, but you are an ignorant cheater, defending your 'right' to do so. If the so-called "NMaster" doesn't play by the rules, does he really deserve the title? Of course, it's not like you earned it to begin with, you just proclaimed yourself as such.

errr...ok...it's just a screen name ya know...and yeah I defend my right to do so but did I ever say I do it? As a matter of fact I never snake...

Heck, someone could just go and quote from my arguments and have no trouble proving you wrong, not just saying it.

So, yo have an official statement from Nintendo or some gaming league stating that snaking is cheating? Oh, yeah, I forgot everything SM says must be absolute truth...

Wait, are you calling Wavedashing and L-cancelling cheating now too? Christ, let's just remove the Smash tournament scene all together.


I'm seriously starting to get the vibe your just pissed at people who beat you with techniques you don't have the skillz to master...

[ShadowMarth]

Please. I hate wavedashing for the same reason I hate snaking. It's cheating. I know that the whole tournament scene uses it, and the whole tournament scene is wrong, but there's nothing that can be done about it. And if not doing something because it's wrong (cheating) is a bad reason, then... Well, no, it's not.

[Pilot_51]

Originally Posted by Sparks

If it was cheating, it would have to have like a code or something. Something that people exploit, is cheap.

That's not true in my book. Cheating can include a wide range of ways to make you more powerful without playing the game the way it was primarily intended to be played, which includes not only programmed codes, but things such as hacking, or in the case of some games like RPG's, referring to walkthroughs.
Exploits are most commonly referring to the use of bugs in the game, I became familiar with them (or the word as used in games) in BF1942 when there was a bug allowing skydivers to remain in the air and fly anywhere in the map by simply looking straight up, which was fixed in the next patch. The wall bugs in MPH are also exploits, and I believe snaking is an exploit at a not so serious level.

The official word from the developers of MKDS is that it was unintentional and they frown on it, I clearly remember reading that a couple months after the release, but last time I tried looking for the article (on the Nintendo site I believe) I couldn't find it.

[Sparks]

Isn't hacking where you alter the script of the game, therefore using code?
and walkthroughs were mainly started due to people being stuck on a particular part of a game and others getting annoyed with their constant whining about it.
I think i used the wrong word there, i meant the kinds of things, like snaking or Alt-ing, where theres a combo/attack thats there for people to gain an edge, but people use them waaaaay too much.
What i'm trying to get across is that snaking can't be considered cheating, because the basics of the "skill", were already in the game. Someone just decided to use it incessantly.

[leafgreen386]

Your links prove nothing, sm. Their purpose is merely to waste our time. No one wants to read an eight page thread... especially an old one.

I'm gonna have to go on a bit of a peripheral topic here about ssbm... I'm sorry, but it has to be done.

and the whole tournament scene is wrong

That right there proves your ignorance to any type of competitive play, whatsoever. If the tournament allows it, is it really still cheating? The point of competitive play is to make the most varied, balanced playing field possible, while incorporating as much skill, and eliminating as much luck as possible. If the tournament allows it, by their modified rules, it isn't cheating for that tournament. If the game allows it w/o outside interference, and as long as it is balanced, no matter how wacky it may seem, it deserves no place to be banned in tourney.

Wavedashing and L-cancelling were both PUT INTO THE GAME INTENTIONALLY. L-cancelling has been around since the original ssb... if nintendo wanted it out, they would've taken it out in the conversion to ssbm, but they didn't remove it. Wavelanding can be turned on and off in the debug menu, so they knew they were putting it in. These facts disprove ANYTHING you can say that would make them "cheating."

Now, we're aruging about whether snaking has a place on wifi vs random people, where there are no rules, and people can hack and get away with it, which is a very different story. However I had to mention that.

And if we're talking about ignorant fools, I'm the only one in this argument that's not one...

This makes you look even more ignorant. You won't even recognize another person's argument, yet you say that everyone else is wrong, just because you have your own twisted set of "morals."

I know I've done all these points a hundred times.

How do you "know" that if you haven't read it? I assure you that those are new points (from me, anyway), as I haven't posted it before. This particular post may have old points regarding ssbm, but Idc.

Why not just say that it's cheap, not cheating.
If you say no, then consider Alt-ing constantly on MPH.
People don't consider that cheating, they say it's cheap.

Ah... the topic of "cheapness..." If we were to get into this now this topic would easy go another five pages just about that. I firmly stand by the opinion that nothing in any game is cheap. If it's unfair, it gets banned. "Cheap" is just a word used as a john for a person's own inability to counter something, that is in fact, counterable. In smash, anything is counterable. To avoid a chain throw, use mindgames and tech skill to not get grabbed (granted, easier said than done, but still, you'll notice pros rarely get grabbed by non-pros, and even other pros, meaning if you're good enough it's very much possible to "not get grabbed"), and... if you do get grabbed, DI the throws to try to fake out your opponent into going the wrong way, then tech and make your way to safety. To get out of pretty much any combo, use good DI and tech when you hit the ground. If you want to get a hit in, but don't want to get hit in return, use good spacing (aka tech skill), and fake your opponent into messing up and lagging (aka mindgames). In smash, everything is counterable by tech skill and mindgames. Whoever wins truly is the better player.

Countering snaking is rediculously easy, since all you need is tech skill. There is no mindgame factor, except when you get into item wars and stuff, but we're not talking about that, now are we? Use more SSMTs and take better lines than your opponent. That's all there is to it. Even if you're not as good as your opponent, you can still beat them thanks to items. In this way snaking is in no way broken, especially when a worse player is able to beat a more skilled one. If you refer back to my argument a few posts back I basically say that everyone snakes to varying degrees, regardless of whether they realize it or not. Does that make sense out of context? Probably not. That's why you should read it.

I'm seriously starting to get the vibe your just pissed at people who beat you with techniques you don't have the skillz to master...

You're just now figuring that out?

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

Please. I hate wavedashing for the same reason I hate snaking. It's cheating. I know that the whole tournament scene uses it, and the whole tournament scene is wrong...

You've stretched well beyond ignorance and arrogance and are now treading on simply being asinine. You heard it everybody, SM's opinion is law, and the entire tournament scene is unfair and full of cheaters because SM doesn't agree with how they play.

I dare you to go on the Smash Boards and say that retarted s**t...

[ShadowMarth]

Been there, done that, the argument was a link in my last post... So pay friggin attention.

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

Been there, done that, the argument was a link in my last post... So pay friggin attention.

Reading a long post is one thing, reading through 10 pages of an old argument is ridiculous and you can't expect anyone to do that...your just avoiding responding to things you don't want to...

[ShadowMarth]

I gave a link, explained what it was about. You quoted that sentece, yet still missed the entire point of it...

So, I ask, who's ignorant?