Snaking and Piracy

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

I gave a link, explained what it was about. You quoted that sentece, yet still missed the entire point of it...

Missed what point? You just claimed that your opinion is right and that EVERYONE who's competitive in Smash Bros. tourneys is a cheater...I didn't miss anything...

[ShadowMarth]

Ah, excuse me, it was the post before that one. Well, the point remains. You tell me to do something that not only had I already done, but I just posted a link to, which brought up the current subject to begin with, and you accuse me of ignorance.

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

Ah, excuse me, it was the post before that one. Well, the point remains. You tell me to do something that not only had I already done, but I just posted a link to, which brought up the current subject to begin with, and you accuse me of ignorance.

We must not be looking at the same posts...because there's nothing in this thread like your talking about. And I've already said, your being completely unrealistic if you think anybody's going to dig through 10 pages of an old thread to try to grasp why your so f'd up in the head about your cheating theory for wavedashing...

Again, your just dodging. You called everyone in the Smash tourney scene cheaters, regardless of old posts. That's some elitist thinking, you basically saying your better than everyone else because you don't wavedash and stuff. It doesn't make them cheaters, it makes you a n00b. The game has evolved in how's it played and you haven't.

If it's accepted in the tournament scene than it's obviously not cheating. If anything should define what's right and wrong in a game it's tourney rules...

[ShadowMarth]

I'm not talking about reading the whole 10 pages, I'm talking about being lucid enough to know that the thread exists after I outright stated that and posted a link...

And this one is about Wavedashing, but much of the same topics about exploits occur. Though in the case of snaking, the facts are much more apparent...
http://www.touchds.com/forums/debate...ht=wavedashing

Anyway, I'm not surprised that they allow Wavedashing. It's admittedly tough to do. It might even be called skillful. But it's still cheating... But to most (the uninformed), it's a gray area, and like most gray areas, they do whatever the hell they want.

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

It's admittedly tough to do. It might even be called skillful. But it's still cheating... But to most (the uninformed), it's a gray area, and like most gray areas, they do whatever the hell they want.

It's skillful, in a gray area, and cheating at the same time?

I don't even know how to respond to that hypocritical statement.

And who the **** died and made you the rule-maker for video games? Personally, I think the tourney rule-makers get to make those claims, everyone elses opinions be damned. If Nintendo sponsored tournaments say it's legal, it's f'ing legal, and it's not cheating, period. They get to make the call, not you, not me.

[ShadowMarth]

I thought you might pick on my wording, but I couldn't think of a better way to put it. I mean to say that the uninformed perceive it as a gray area, not that I call it a gray area. And the skill it takes to pull it off is absolutely and completely irrelevant as cheating goes.

And I don't believe Nintendo sponsors the majority of the tournaments, nor could they stop these people from doing this if they did. They can't watch everybody, and they can't change the game physics just for a tournament, so they just let it slide. It's why I've always said we need game patching on consoles, and developers willing to follow through with it.

Besides, I hate the wavedashing argument even more. Done here.

[nmaster64]

Originally Posted by ShadowMarth

And I don't believe Nintendo sponsors the majority of the tournaments, nor could they stop these people from doing this if they did...

They have sponsored some of the big tourneys. If they don't say it's cheating, it's not, end of story.

[Mario Famous]

You guys call dodging in Smash Bros wavedashing?...You guys always have name for advance maneuvers, so that what that guy mean't when he said that I was a god a wavedashing...I always thought it was just advance dodging. I still don't think snaking is cheating, now that the real AR DS came out, you will see what cheating really is.

[nmaster64]

Yeah, it's basically just advanced dodging. Wavedashing is the name given to it by the Smash community...

Here, from the official Smash Boards. "Everything Guide"

Wavedashing - How To: Wavedashing is difficult to pull off at first, but with practice it eventually becomes second nature. To perform a Wavedash, jump (hit X/Y), then immediately airdodge (hit L/R) into the ground at an angle. Each character has different timing based on their jump animations/duration. For the most noticeable results, select Luigi, who is known for his long wavedash.

Wavedashing - Uses:

• Edgehogging
• Mind-games
• Spacing
• Wavedashing forwards/backwards into an attack
• Wavedashing into/out of shield/shine
• Wavedashing into a grab
• Wavedashing combined with normal dash dancing
• Wavedashing upon landing (just the dodge into the ground required)
• Wavedashing into platforms for quicker landings (just the dodge into the ground required)
• And much, much more!

Wavedashing - Common Concerns:

• Attending any large scale tourney will greatly increase your knowledge of the usefulness of this technique (along with many others).
• Every 'Pro' knows how to wavedash and can perform it at will.
• Learning to wavedash does not mean immediate ownership of your friends.
• If you are just hearing of this technique, you are not as good as you may have previously thought, and you are not beyond learning this technique (to stifle the common egotistical beginner argument lodged against this technique). Learning it will bring more rewards than shunning it, so see past the difficultly of learning it and don't be afraid to do a little work.
• Is wavedashing the most important general technique to learn? No. That most likely resides in L-Canceling/Shuffling. Is wavedashing an important technique? Yes.
• Wavedashing must be incorporated into your game over a period of time to fully achieve its desired effects.

Video example and bigger how-to

[Pilot_51]

Originally Posted by Sparks

Isn't hacking where you alter the script of the game, therefore using code?
and walkthroughs were mainly started due to people being stuck on a particular part of a game and others getting annoyed with their constant whining about it.

Yes, hacking in most cases is the altering of code, but most people don't deal with the code and they either replace a file with one someone else made or on consoles/handhelds they use a device that modifies the game data.
Walkthroughs are similar to cheat codes in that they're frequently used to get past hard parts in the game. Almost all games, especially RPG's, are designed to be playable without external sources of assistance.

If a tournament host says a specific technique is allowed, it's not cheating for that tournament. If it's not mentioned, they either don't know about it, it's incredibly common (and therefore allowed in the tournament), or they forgot to mention it and you need to ask about it. If they say it's not allowed, it's cheating for the tournament.

We need a list of the pros and cons (or reasons why it's ok and why it's bad) of snaking, all this stuff about linking to old topics to make a point that nobody can find is just too much. The list will not only help everyone get the big picture, but it would probably be the last hope for "converting" your opponents in the argument to your side, and end all these useless pages arguing.