Java on the NDS

[17R3W]

I was talking to my Java Prof about the possibillity of putting java on the NDS. This could really expand the programing bass for it...

However, the more i talked to him the more i realized anything programmed in Java for the NDS, it would have to be programmed just for the NDS.

The touch screen isn't really an issue.. the GUI would treat it like a mouse, but the biggest problem is the 2 screens. Well Java can surport the two screens, this causes any programs for it to be usable only for NDS.

While I couldn't find a Java virtual machine for the arm9 processor, it is likley one would be of little use, and a virtual machine would have to be built around the NDS it's self.

If this true, it seems worthless to even bother... might as well code all in C++ and compile just for NDS then run byte code for a NDS java virtual machine. (it is unlikley that profressinal's would be unable to program in C++ but could manage java)

However, a Java Virtual Machine maybe needed for a web browser...

Serouise feed back here please...

EDIT1###
for those who don't know, C++ compiles into what is know as bit code. Your computer (or Xbox, PS2 ect) can run this bit code, but you must compile for each system.
Java compiles into what is known as byte code (90% compiled code). Byte code can't be understood by any computer ever. However, using a JVM it is compiled to bit code. This can be ran in theory by anything from a computer, to a cell phone to a VCR. What it is used for mostly is MAC/PC, but that's changing again with the net. Also, there is such a thing known as JAVA MOBILE.

[Minneyar]

It's an interesting possibility. It's only natural that a JVM for the DS would be have to built around the hardware, but it's the same with every other platform -- VMs for Windows, OS X, Linux, Solaris, etc., all have to be built specifically for their operating system, even though they're all capable of running the same byte code.

In order to run on the hardware within the constraints of the DS's processing and storage capabilities, it would probably need to implement the J2ME specification. It would probably be functionally similar to the JVM available on cell phones or PDAs, with the only real difference being that it has a second screen available.

A JVM for the DS would definitely be very cool, although I think it would be more useful for things like porting applications from cell phones or PDAs or rapid application development. Something like a web browser, calendar, or e-mail client would be much easier to develop in Java than C, although I would imagine that games would still be coded in C for performance reasons.

[Cyb0rgNinj4]

The DS also has an ARM7 proc ~ 12 mhz. And, you don't really have to use both screens. One could be off.

[x999x]

LoL I got 4 Votes! :shock:

Well, let me start by saying Java on the DS would be a really good thing, especially when you consider the existing software library you could take advantage of if it were possible.

There are, however, some limitations with using java on the DS, primarily storage, like program ram and any available scratch disk. This has been the same limitation which has hampered Java on PDA's and consoles when tapped as a net appliance. Requiring such a tiny footprint to work within the means of such small appliances, features are dropped, and the end result is a java that only works halfway, or up to a point depending on the applet you're trying to run.

Currently, PocketJava for the pocketpc hovers around 2 megs of install files, which isn't much. It runs about 70% of what I throw at it, but that doesn't neccessarily mean it' runs it correctly. I don't mean to say it's not possible or this is all it will ever be limited to, I'm just using what else is out there as an example of how far along java has gotten in other portable markets.

Although I don't see an official Java port, one which comes with a browser like Netscape or the like ever being released for the DS, I do expect homebrew versions. Maybe not so much as full java support, but perhaps the Links browser with lite jscript support at the most. Links has been ported to the xbox, so it's pheasible it could be ported to the DS if someone were to take up the challenge once the homebrew community gets wings.

[17R3W]

Originally Posted by x999x

LoL I got 4 Votes! :shock:

For the record, those 4 could be that I'm a Moron!!! :twisted:


BTW....

The Cold That Killed - wookubus
(4:25 PM MST 01/10/2005)
Cold have enlisted Ben Grosse (Sevendust, Filter) to mix their upcoming new album, which now carries the title of "The Calm That Killed A Storm". A tentative May release date through Atlantic is being eyed.

[Gene]

Please understand that I say this with the utmost sincerity: Almost all Java programs suck. Programs written on a specific operating system tend to not work on other operating systems. Most programmers take a lot of shortcuts and the result is a bloated program that eats 75% of your processor and could easily be replaced with a flash or shockwave animation.

Java/JVM itself is very powerful, but the people that program for it are nincompoops.

Example: I work on UNIX systems whose storage resides on a HDS 9980v (very large disk array) which is primarily managed via a web-based Java application. To use this application you MUST be on a windows box. You CANNOT use any other operating system. Hell, I have problems using it with Firefox so I have to use Internet Explorer. Why? Because the persons who developed it use certain functionalities that are only available with the windows JVM.

It's asinine, I know. But, with all the junky Java programs out there why would I want to run any on my DS? Well, then again, I guess I could use that most awesomest Java Quake 2 Engine and frag away on my DS!

When I say "very large disk array", I meant it. This thing can hold up to 1024 146GB disk drives. That's 147.5 Tera bytes, and its system manager only works in Windows? Jimminy Cricket!

[Minneyar]

You have to bear in mind that almost all programs suck, period, just like everything else. Poor programmers are not unique to Java. (when I was attending my university, in fact, most of the programming atrocities I saw from other people were in Visual Basic or C++, even though I primarily used Java for the last few years)

It's also pretty widely known that Microsoft's JVM is nonstandard. In fact, due to a court decision from a few years back, they're no longer allowed to distribute it.. but, of course, it still comes bundled with operating systems that were released before the decision. Some people still develop for it, but there's not much that can be done about that except to wait for those operating systems to fall into obscurity. Applets and applications developed using Sun's standard VM should run on any platform.

If the DS did have its own JVM, though, running cross-platform desktop applications on it would probably not be viable anyway due to hardware limitations. I, for one, would be interested in it simply for the virtues of being able to develop in a Java environment, so as to take advantage of some of the language's more powerful features, such as interfaces, abstract objects, and garbage collection.

[x999x]

If you're familar with Java on the PocketPC, you'll get an idea of how good the DS version can "ever be." That is of couse a lot better sounding than it really is. Java on the PocketPC is pretty lame, and even with 3rd parties taking the helm, it's still nothing to get excited about... I still can't log into gmail with it... :T

Java, No... Flash 7/Shockwave functionality? Now we're talking something subtantial here, I mean even the PocketPC's flash player (5) is extremely powerful.

[Minneyar]

Actually, I'm not at all familiar with Java on the PocketPC. What kinds of limitations does it have? Also, why does that have anything to do with Gmail? As far as I'm aware, Gmail's site uses lots of tricky Javascript, but no Java (and despite the similar names, the two are not at all related).

I am somewhat familiar with Java on cell phones, though, and it's pretty powerful, although there's not a whole lot of fancy things that you can do in such limited environments.